Eddie,
Ok, a few factors have veen clarified.
Unlike printers, scanners (a) calibrate themselves; (b) if they
characterize their output, it is in terms of the devices color space
without reference to the medium being scanned; and (c) typically in so
far as taking into account differnet specific films which are scanned,
this is usually included in the software as a series of lookup tables
( sometimes it is upgraded and upgradable by the application publisher
based on the film anufacture's specs or on extensive testing with
expensive equipment.
With respect to user constructed lookup tables for negative films or
even positive films which can be used and imported into scanner
software, I know of no commercially produced pre-established lookup
tables that one can download from a source and export to scanner
software or, for that matter, to film recorders. Most of the lookup
tables are and may even have to be tailored to particular devices that
they are going to be used by because as I understand it their is some
kind of interation between the information on the lookup table (i.e. the
software component) and the hardware and its operation.
There are ways of color correcting postivie film scans based on IT 8.7/1
transparency targets on the film being corrected for, but this is not
the case for negative films since the process is much more complicated
given the use of color oragne masking employed with color negative film
which varies from film brand and type to film breand and type as well as
the need for the software to perform a reversal rendition from negative
to positive. I suppose one could approximate what one can do with
transparency film by shooting a Macbeth color chart and gray scale on
the particular negative stock one wants to use, have the film processed,
and then scan the film and have the software perform its reversal
operation along with its accounting for the orange masking and its
effect on the color rendition. One could then compare the result in
output of the finished scan with the original Macbeth color chart so as
to determin what sorts of color corrections one needs to make to bring
the finished scan into line with the original given the negative film
being used. It is hit or miss in that there is no standard 35mm
negative film mask in use across brands and film tyupes so one has to
color correct by eye and based on skill and talent in third party image
editing applications as best one can in the same way photographic
printers do when they print a negative. (I know a Shirley target is
used in automatic printing based on Kodak films and papers in one-hour
labs; but what I am suggesting is that for scanning of negative films
you will need to develop your own Shirley target to scan in and check
against).
As for scanner software, they usually have as part of their program an
internal set of film type and brand lookup tables that the publisher has
compiled for whatever films they have decided to do it for that their
software will use and support. Film brands and types not included by
the software publisher and for which they do nopt supply an upgrade to
include typically are ones that one needs to find an equivalent from
aong the films supported by the software.
filmscanners_owner@halftone.co.uk <> wrote:
> Laurie
>
> I was not referring to any of the prints as proofs.
>
> I was trying to find out if there is a way to profile a film scanner
> so that you can reasonably believe that the colours you are seeing on
> your monitor / or the print from a profiled printer of the scan is
> the colour that is on the negative.
>
> I run a profiled monitor and printer. I mainly work from a digital
> camera and I do very little work with films. In this case I am doing
> the task for a keen 35mm film SLR user. I have obtained the loan of a
> film scanner from a beginner in scanning, his knowledge is minimal.
>
> I am aware that using Vuescan or Silverfast and a IT 8.7/1
> transparency target based on say Fuji Velvia transparency film, you
> can profile the film scanner to produce accurate scans from Velvia.
> You can also do similar thing with Kodak and Agfa transparency films
> after you purchase one of their respective 35mm targets and run the
> profiling options.
>
> The question inferred is whether the list knows of a standard 35mm
> negative of say Fuji film that can be used to profile the film
> scanner, if such a negative target is not available then the
> profiling option in either Vuescan or Silverfast can not be completed
> for a film negative.
>
> If such an action cannot be completed then any scan from a negative
> is very much a hit and miss affair.
>
> Eddie
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LAURIE SOLOMON" <laurie@advancenet.net>
> To: <glenside@ecosse.net>
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 6:03 PM
> Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Colour management on Negatives
>
>
> While it may be the only scanner software bundled with the scanner,
> there may be other applications that you can get and use. Some are
> scanner programes like Silverfast or Vuescan, which you will have to
> check and see if they support your scanner; some are not scanning
> programs but umage editing programs with which you can make color
> corrections like Photoshop.
>
> If the colors of the subject are the same as those on the film, then,
> no matter what softwre one uses, the object is not to match the
> scanned colors to those of the print but those one the film once the
> image colors converted into positives.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: filmscanners_owner@halftone.co.uk
> [mailto:filmscanners_owner@halftone.co.uk]On Behalf Of eddie
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 7:16 AM
> To: laurie@advancenet.net
> Subject: [filmscanners] RE: Colour management on Negatives
>
>
> There is only a Minolta utility bundled with the 5400.
>
> I will vistt the house in the picture at the weekend with the three
> prints and
> try to work out what the real colors are then make an attempt to
> correct the scan to the nearest equivalent.
>
>
>
>> ===== Original Message From filmscanners@halftone.co.uk =====
>> I think the film manufacturers provide what Kodak at least calls
>> "film terms", information some scanners can use to get the colors
>> right, or at least closer, for those films. This is, I assume, what's
>> behind Lasersoft's Silverfast, for example, letting you choose the
>> film before the scan. It hasn't always done that, and it seemed to me
>> to make an appreciable difference when that feature was added (in the
>> 5 or 5.5 upgrade?). But, reading between Eddie's lines, I guess
>> Silverfast is not bundled with the Minolta 5400?
>>
>> Sam
>
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