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-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Denninger <karl@mcs.net>
To: Paul Vixie <vixie@wisdom.rc.vix.com>
Cc: nanog@merit.edu <nanog@merit.edu>
Subject: Re: backbone transparent proxy / connection hijacking


>On Thu, Jun 25, 1998 at 05:12:08PM -0700, Paul Vixie wrote:
>> 
>> The box we built was designed for access providers -- you know, put 1,000
>> modems in a room and sell dialup accounts.  It works fine in that context.
>> And, dialup users are usually not terribly deep as technologists, and they
>> are used to having their bits mutilated in the great cause of "overcommit."
>> 
>> While a T1 data rate would present no real problem, a T1 customer who would
>> usually recognize what was happening to them AND care about it, *would*
>> represent a problem.  And besides, a T1 customer would probably be willing
>> and able to use ICP or at least run their own local cache and point their
>> browsers at it nontransparently.
>> -- 
>> Paul Vixie
>> La Honda, CA "Many NANOG members have been around
>> <paul@vix.com> longer than most." --Jim Fleming
>> pacbell!vixie!paul (An H.323 GateKeeper for the IPv8 Network)
>
>Putting these in a POP and hijacking the connections can dramatically lower
>the amount of money an NSP needs to spend on long-haul connections (every
>locally-fed entry is one you don't pay to transport (again)).  
>
>Why do you think this is so popular with the cable modem folks?
>
>However, the first time a customer who didn't know about this gets an aged
>quote on a stock (and loses their shirt), or something else happens that
>causes real trouble, you've got a major problem, and it might be a legal
>rather than an operational one.
>
>I don't consider this kind of thing, done without full disclosure, to be 
>proper in ANY context.  To accomplish the goal you have to *steal* the
>packet flow that was given to you and monkey with it.
>
>That act is at least somewhat likely to constitute "wiretapping", and since 
>its done without the consent or even knowledge of *any* of the parties to 
>the communication at hand......
>
>--
>-- 
>Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin
>http://www.mcs.net/          | T1's from $600 monthly / All Lines K56Flex/DOV
>      | NEW! Corporate ISDN Prices dropped by up to 50%!
>Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS
>Fax:   [+1 312 803-4929]     | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
>


------
Ilya Shulman   ish@east.ru        +7-095-956-4951 ISH-RIPN
East Connection ISP, Moscow, Russia. http://www.east.ru

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